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 Post subject: Talk me into tubeless
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:01 pm 
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timid kitty
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Tell me about your tubeless experiences. Is it what all the hype makes it up to be or is it a total pile of BS?

My rims are WTB tubeless ready and are even taped for tubeless, albeit I'm running cheap Kenda heavy ass tubes right now.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:08 pm 
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lil' hucker
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Do you get a lot of flats?

If no, then unless you're interested in testing super low air pressures, probably nothing to be gained.

If yes, it will rock your world.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:21 pm 
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timid kitty
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I get about 1-2 flats per year. Nothing big. I wouldn't mind some lower pressures though. Interesting.....

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:34 pm 
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lil' hucker
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I used to get about 7 or 8 flats a month, on average. Once had 3 flats on one 4 hour ride.

Since I went tubeless, now average about 1 flat a year. And these are usually because I get lazy and don't keep the sealant refreshed.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:37 pm 
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pussy
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Same here. With tubes, I would usually get a slow leak first, then pinch flat a mile later. Tubeless = heaven.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:48 pm 
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grumpeh kitty!
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+1 on lower frequency of puncture or pinch flats. No real weight savings in my experience.

As far as running lower pressures, it helps quite a bit on loose surface climbs, but I'm able to run "low enough" pressure in a tubed setup to not make a big difference compared to tubeless.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:16 pm 
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yappin' kitty
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Living in the land of thorns, tubeless is all about flats. When the open field trails were cut I'd flat every f'ing ride.

Not running much lower PSI after killing a rear rim. Accurate pressure and fresh sealant are critical.

Other than tearing sidewalls open I've been flat free for 3 years.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:10 pm 
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timid kitty
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Thanks guys, sounds interesting.

Question: How often are you changing / adding sealant?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:41 pm 
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yappin' kitty

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Bikin Bric wrote:
Thanks guys, sounds interesting.

Question: How often are you changing / adding sealant?



In the warm months, which are pretty much every month now in SoCal, I have to change the Stan's every 3-4 months.

Beyond 4 months, and a swarm of goathead thorns could do me in, or at least cause a flat.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:11 pm 
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grumpeh kitty!
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Bikin Bric wrote:
Thanks guys, sounds interesting.

Question: How often are you changing / adding sealant?

Sort of agree with Ray, although I would need to add no later than 6 months. There would still be a little fluid in the tires at that point.

I would pop open the bead and dump a scoop or two in, then re-seal. "Painting" some sealant along the beads before mounting the tire really seemed to help seal them up, in my experience.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:12 pm 
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pussy
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I usually add some rv-a once every while and some homebrew once every blue moon. :lol: Some tires seep a lot, some won't shed a tear.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:03 pm 
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timid kitty

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If you like thicker tires, it seems to get them to grip better. Some thin tires I tried to run TL were a total fail IMO. Low enough pressure for grip and the just felt wrong.

I'm also pretty cautious, and have heard a few local stories about pretty bad crashes because of burps, so I'd try it and take it easy on the first bike.
I did the rear first, figured I have way better chances with a burp out back than a front.

Now that I think about it, if it burps in the back, is that a fart?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:22 pm 
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pussy
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Zowie wrote:
Now that I think about it, if it burps in the back, is that a fart?


Only when it isn't a shart. :whistle:


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:24 pm 
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grumpeh kitty!
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Zowie wrote:
I'm also pretty cautious, and have heard a few local stories about pretty bad crashes because of burps, so I'd try it and take it easy on the first bike.
I did the rear first, figured I have way better chances with a burp out back than a front.

I had a burp on the front going down a fairly techy rock section. I was not going fast -- I tend to ride stuff like that by Braille -- so I didn't eat shit. I was able to hop off the bike and stick my landing. But it could have been a bad outcome.

The setup I had at the time was non-tubeless ready wheel, gorilla tape ghetto style and homebrew sealant with a 2.4" Ardent EXO. I've lost confidence in the resilience of non-tubeless ready setups so I've gone back to tubes, for now.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:54 pm 
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timid kitty

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For the sake of argument (and TL thread crossover) could you seat that tire that burped with a floor pump?

All the ghetto setups I've had issues with I needed a compressor to seat, all that seated with a FP have done fine.
I have little experience compared to some though, that's just anecdotal... :)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:52 pm 
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grumpeh kitty!
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Zowie wrote:
For the sake of argument (and TL thread crossover) could you seat that tire that burped with a floor pump?

All the ghetto setups I've had issues with I needed a compressor to seat, all that seated with a FP have done fine.
I have little experience compared to some though, that's just anecdotal... :)

No, I have always used a compressor (and getting that 2.4 Ardent to seat takes hella lotta air). My floor pump sucks so I wouldn't use my situation as a gauge.

I think the failure party has to do with tire fatigue over time, and just not having a good rim interface. Just a guess, but when I've seated new tires they last a long time.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:17 am 
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lil' hucker
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Yeah, I think those kevlar beads stretch over time.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:20 am 
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big hucker

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I love tubeless.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:02 pm 
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pussy
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Get rims with bead locks and you won't have to worry about burps.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:08 pm 
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yappin' kitty
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Hookless beads.
Other than to save mfg's $$ what are the benefits?
I don't get it.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:23 pm 
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pussy
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Hookless == thicker and more robust rim walls, less fragile, better chance to survive a rock impact
Bead locks == much harder to unseat the beads because you can't move them towards the rim center.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:07 pm 
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yappin' kitty
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Thanks Sti.
Always liked the sound of a tire being seated on WTB's bead locks.
Without bead hook, is a tubeless tire more apt to blow off the rim?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:18 pm 
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pussy
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IIRC, the arguments about hooks were about history. In the past, the manufacturing tolerances of tires were poor and the hooks were there to save the day for slightly out of round or a bit too big tires. That is no longer a problem, and just like with car and moto tires, bead hooks ceased to play any useful role and are bound to disappear.

In my own experience, it is very hard to break bead of TL / TLR tires on hookless rims with bead locks. Pressure from a side does not do much, you have to pull up and to the side to get the tire loose. I think they are much harder to blow off the rim than standard rims with hooks.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:18 pm 
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chummy kitty
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Another satisfied tubeless customer here. Here in dry So Cal I add sealant every few months. I like to have a few beers in my garage while working on my bike and since I don't know how to do much, fiddling with tires makes me feel like a macho man.

I am building a new wheel set soon with wide rims so I can run a bit lower pressure. I weight 200 and currently run 28f/30r with tubeless. Zero flats since going tubeless as well.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:09 am 
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yappin' kitty
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When I finally get my set of minions, I'm going to breakdown and set them up tubeless....or at least that is the plan now.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:39 pm 
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timid kitty
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When I ran tubes, I ran sealant in them, so flats from punctures were not an issue. My predominate issue was pinch flatting. I went tubeless because I preferred the attributes that lower pressures afforded. Particularly in techy areas.

I'm not so sure all the arguments that swirl around the forums touting the advantages of tubeless are truly warranted. I think many do it to fit in and be cool because everyone seems to do it. I think there's a legitimate reason for tubeless. For others, I think not.

The predominate rationale for going tubeless that I hear is flats from punctures. Tubeless has sealant that prevents flats and the same prevention can be had with tubes. My wife has run tubes with sealant for years and never has experienced a flat. She runs 17 psi in the front and 19 in the rear. She weighs 110 lbs soaking wet and I'm not sure that she 's capable of a pinch flat...she hasn't ever done it yet. And, she will follow me just about anywhere I go. Her preferred tire is the Maxxis EXO Ikons. Perhaps the EXO's provide a stiffer sidewall that adds some added protection.

Before going tubeless, I ran several years with tubes and quickly grew tired of flats (punctures, not pinch flats). So I started running the Slime sealant in the tubes and never had any more problems. So, my point is that it worked. My pinch flat problems grew as I tested lower pressures and liked the benefits of that. Thus, my interest in going tubeless developed and materialized.

The choice is yours.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:35 pm 
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friendly kitty
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^ I've been running tubes with sealant (Orange Seal) for a while now. Fuckin useless. It doesn't protect against pinches because it can't seal those up, and then it makes a giant fucking mess when I have to change the tube because sealant is leaking everywhere. I run my tires at 35ish psi, so it should be plenty. I've tried ghetto tubeless and Orange Seal system in the past and they didn't work, so I just ordered new tires and a full Stan's system.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:51 pm 
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bad kitty!
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Take a look at the tubeless DIY sealant thread, in there you can also find sources of the other materials needed, like Stan's tape sold for a fraction of the price from Tesa or 3M as I recall.

.....and get yourself some wider tires. :D


Magura :)

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