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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:37 am 
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friendly kitty

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I was in the market for a small solvent tank for the garage and, well now that I'm single I can do whatever the hell I want and I ended up with one of these little table top ultrasonic cleaners.

I have one of those uber expensive 10sl DLC chains from KNC and after watching videos of these cleaners in action I'm thinking this is the way to go for cleaning the chain.

I'm no chemist so I'm not sure what cleaner to use, but if I can help it I don't want to wash out the grease. I think water as it is polar, possibly mixed with a small amount of white vinegar.

I made mention of this at that other place :snooty: but I wanted to see if this peaks any of your folks interest and hear your feedback.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:48 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:44 am 
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Um...a water-based degreaser?

Clean then re-oil/re-grease.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:48 am 
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friendly kitty
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How many more miles do ya think you'll get from this ?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:59 am 
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friendly kitty

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I thought about Simple Green or Castrol Superclean, but even though they're water based they're still degreasers so wouldn't that stuff wash the grease out of the rollers?

I don't know how much or even if this will extend the service life of a chain bikeabuser, but I own the darn thing now for cleaning carburetors and whatever else so for sure its likely faster, more thorough, and more conveinient. Seems to me a better way to go than the old toothbrush.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:44 am 
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bad kitty!
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Congratulations Jon, that will be one of the best purchases you've made in a long time.
I too have such a toy, and use it for just about anything that even resembles cleaning.

To clean your chain, you have to keep in mind that most of your previous experience in that regard, is not applying to this.
Just use water with dish washing liquid (5%), as the ultrasonics vibrates all the dirt out.
After such a treatment (takes like 1 hour), throw the chain in a cup of bar oil for a few hours, wipe off the excess, and you're good to go.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:57 am 
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Oh yeah, congratulations on freeing yourself from the millstone.....

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:53 pm 
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I have religious objections against waterbased degreasers, but will spare all of you the pain. I would just ask that you dry the chain very thoroughly before you try to lube it.

But that's not why I came here. I have wanted to take the re-oiling to the next level. I think vacuumbagging it with the oil would be cool, the goal being to try to get all the air out of the spaces between the pins and the rollers. Might be silly, but if I had the bagger I'd be all over it.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:57 pm 
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bad kitty!
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After cleaning, naturally the water based degreaser must be removed 100%.
The solution I usually use, is to throw the part in the oven at 80C for half an hour.

Vacuum impregnating the chain is not a bad suggestion.
It could be done easily with a jar and a big syringe.


Magura :)

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:28 pm 
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friendly kitty

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Interesting, couldn't vacuum also dry the chain? I'm no expert but doesn't water sublimate in a vacuum? I know that's how the moisture is removed from AC lines before given a fresh charge of refrigerant.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:59 pm 
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bad kitty!
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Jon Richard wrote:
Interesting, couldn't vacuum also dry the chain? I'm no expert but doesn't water sublimate in a vacuum? I know that's how the moisture is removed from AC lines before given a fresh charge of refrigerant.


It certainly could, given enough vacuum.
Try that if you find using an oven too complicated ;)


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:14 pm 
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My two cents: Get a power link and wipe all the excess of whatever lube you choose to use.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:27 pm 
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friendly kitty

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Magura wrote:
Jon Richard wrote:
Interesting, couldn't vacuum also dry the chain? I'm no expert but doesn't water sublimate in a vacuum? I know that's how the moisture is removed from AC lines before given a fresh charge of refrigerant.


It certainly could, given enough vacuum.
Try that if you find using an oven too complicated ;)


Magura :)


:lol: well I did mention that I'm on my own now and you know what, I'm just now realizing that that oven hasn't been turned on since she left.

The welder, plasma cutter, mill, let me at em but I'm staying the hell away from that confounded oven.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:22 pm 
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revolting kitty
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Mags: Could he bake it in bar oil?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:24 pm 
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bad kitty!
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Wmac wrote:
Mags: Could he bake it in bar oil?


What do you have in mind to achieve by doing so?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:19 pm 
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Jon, don't hurt yourself with that oven... Actually the oven is safer than the stovetop. The oven tends to contain fires well. I, uh, heard that somewhere.

Magura wrote:
Vacuum impregnating the chain is not a bad suggestion.
It could be done easily with a jar and a big syringe.


Magura :)
I'm gonna need a bigger syringe. How much vacuum does an idling car engine produce?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:22 pm 
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pussy
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Bill in Houston wrote:
Jon, don't hurt yourself with that oven... Actually the oven is safer than the stovetop. The oven tends to contain fires well. I, uh, heard that somewhere.


I love the smell of hydraulic oil burning off metallic brake pads on a stove top... :geek:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:26 pm 
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stealth kitty
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I've used the oven to heat parts (for shrink fitting), powder coating stuff, curing composites.

Needless to say Gigi made the oven off-limits to me.

-S

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:35 pm 
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pussy
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Bright idea! :obscene-smokingsombrero: If I got me one of those, could I stick my dirty feet for a cleansing massagor in there?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:55 pm 
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bad kitty!
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Shibiwan wrote:
I've used the oven to heat parts (for shrink fitting), powder coating stuff, curing composites.

Needless to say Gigi made the oven off-limits to me.

-S


Sounds familiar :D


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:10 pm 
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stealth kitty
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Sti wrote:
Bright idea! :obscene-smokingsombrero: If I got me one of those, could I stick my dirty feet for a cleansing massagor in there?


I thought that was why you had that aquarium of fish....

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:19 pm 
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Bill in Houston wrote:
Jon, don't hurt yourself with that oven... Actually the oven is safer than the stovetop. The oven tends to contain fires well. I, uh, heard that somewhere.

Magura wrote:
Vacuum impregnating the chain is not a bad suggestion.
It could be done easily with a jar and a big syringe.


Magura :)
I'm gonna need a bigger syringe. How much vacuum does an idling car engine produce?


http://www.harborfreight.com/25-cfm-vac ... 98076.html
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Or this if you have a good sized air compressor in the garage.
http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum ... 96677.html


It's a HF tool so remember to buy the replacement warranty, use it twice, it breaks, swap for a one... repeat....

-S

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:53 pm 
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I've considered buying an ultrasonic cleaner. I typically put my chain in a glass jar of kerosene for a day (swish it around every hour or two) to dissolve the old oil and dirt. Remove it and let it dry. Then put it in a different glass container of bar oil for a day or so. Remove it and hang it so the excess drips back into the jar. Wipe it down and reinstall.

Here's what I've wondered. Would there be any benefit to partially filling the ultrasonic cleaner tub with water, and then placing the kerosene jar (with chain in there) in the water bath? Would the ultrasonic waves make it through the glass and assist the kerosene with working out old oil and dirt?

I guess I could do the same with the re-application. Place the jar of bar (with chain) in the ultrasonic cleaner water bath. It might be especially beneficial if the cleaner could heat the water (and thus allowing the oil to flow more easily into the pins and rollers)?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:12 pm 
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bad kitty!
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marpilli wrote:
I've considered buying an ultrasonic cleaner. I typically put my chain in a glass jar of kerosene for a day (swish it around every hour or two) to dissolve the old oil and dirt. Remove it and let it dry. Then put it in a different glass container of bar oil for a day or so. Remove it and hang it so the excess drips back into the jar. Wipe it down and reinstall.

Here's what I've wondered. Would there be any benefit to partially filling the ultrasonic cleaner tub with water, and then placing the kerosene jar (with chain in there) in the water bath? Would the ultrasonic waves make it through the glass and assist the kerosene with working out old oil and dirt?

I guess I could do the same with the re-application. Place the jar of bar (with chain) in the ultrasonic cleaner water bath. It might be especially beneficial if the cleaner could heat the water (and thus allowing the oil to flow more easily into the pins and rollers)?


That would be a double no ;)

Using kerosene in an ultrasonic cleaner is pointless in this application.

Applying the oil in the ultrasonic.....why?


Magura :)

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:47 pm 
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this link discusses cleaning in a jar. amazingly, ar-15 forums won't open here at work, so i don't know how good it will be.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 7494,d.b2I
I'd use a plastic bottle instead of a jar. PET/PETE is pretty chemical-resistant.

Oil in the ultrasonic would be a way to make sure the oil gets in to every nook and cranny. I always imagine getting all the oil out, and not being able to get oil back in, and having pins that are completely dry. Yes, I have an active imagination.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:02 pm 
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>> So you're saying the ultrasonic vibrations will work through the glass jar? Once I run the cleaner, should I use the smaller machine to do the lube or should I use my own CLP? I noticed L&R offers a lube solution for their tanks (Safety Ultrasonic Weapon Lubricating Solution #212).

> Yes the vibrations will pass through the glass just fine, and the jar trick can be useful if you've got several different dip cycles you want to run, but only one ultrasonic tank (or two).


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:06 pm 
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bad kitty!
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Well, truth be told I think all this is overkill.
Simple water and dish washing liquid does the job, and is fairly non-toxic.
Half an hour in the ultrasonic, maybe an hour if it's real dirty.
Half an hour in the oven at 80C.
Drop the chain in a jar of bar oil, shake it a bit around, repeat 10 minutes later.
Wipe off the excess and call it a day.

I've been doing this for years, and to be honest, I can't remember last time I replaced a chain.


Magura :)

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:07 pm 
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bad kitty!
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Sti wrote:
>> So you're saying the ultrasonic vibrations will work through the glass jar? Once I run the cleaner, should I use the smaller machine to do the lube or should I use my own CLP? I noticed L&R offers a lube solution for their tanks (Safety Ultrasonic Weapon Lubricating Solution #212).

> Yes the vibrations will pass through the glass just fine, and the jar trick can be useful if you've got several different dip cycles you want to run, but only one ultrasonic tank (or two).



I can confirm this is right. I do that from time to time.


Magura :)

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:03 pm 
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Magura, the "half an hour in the oven at 80C" step is to evaporate any remaining water?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:06 pm 
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marpilli wrote:
Magura, the "half an hour in the oven at 80C" step is to evaporate any remaining water?


Yes.


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